No Name Calling?!

AMEN!!!  Rachael I couldn’t agree more. Everyone has a right to a “voice” but it seems like it’s turning into debating everyone’s opinions instead of the real issues.  

Rachael’s questions are great ones…let’s get to the issues and stop bashing each other for expressing what we’ve worked so hard to have—ur own personal opinion!

Thanks…and thanks Rachael!!

Cheryl

Actually, I will probably be back soon. I would love to get into a mature conversation on these topics where I can learn and share. Hang in there. I think once people see that it’s not going to get ugly they will be willing to share again. People truly do want to talk about this so I’m glad you didn’t give up on it.

Thanks.

I spent hours reading your comments and facts, arguments and namecalling. I think it’s all great. I learned more here than watching MSNBC and CNN. I see no left over bad feelings. You ladies will be friends forever. (once the election is over)
Thank you justincase_girl for not tiring.

Yes! So what’s our first topic? Healthcare anyone?

I have been without healthcare before.  I always worked, so I was unable to receive Medicaid for myself, but could for my kids.  I was also unable to afford insurance, because I was struggling to feed those same kids (3, single mom).  

I am a nurse now, so I am now involved in healthcare.  It’s an atrocious system.  I used to take my 2 younger kids to the same pediatrician when they were little.  Never together.  The peds doc never seemed to recognize me as the mother of the “other” child when I was in there with the current one.  My bi-racial daughter received much less care from the doc than my “white” boy.  Also, the medicaid program would pay for antibiotics, but not prescribed couch syrup.  (It was for comfort, not a necessity)  I worked in a hospital where I took care of a quad (adult) who could get monthly injections to produce a 4-hour erection (that he COULD NOT FEEL) in order to please his partner.  It was considered a dignity issue, so medicaid payed for it.  

There has to be some answer to all of this.  Is there one who will work for everyone?  I have been on the inside.  A nurse can be sued for malpractice like a doctor.  You are in constant state of paranoia hoping not to make a human error and never be allowed to work again.  I have seen the un- and underinsured do without.  I have also seen the insured and over-insured have any medical convenience available to them on a whim, just wanting to say they “had that done“.  I wish I knew the answer, believe me!

The health-care system we have (or don’t have), is full of bias, preferential treatment, etc.  I have worked a lot of jobs, but the worst people I have ever worked with have been nurses and doctors.  What happened to the moral character and high ethics?  Does anyone remember Florence Nightingale,  the “angel with the lamp” who took care of wounded from BOTH sides?

I think one of the major issues is that the health care system is for-profit… there is something tragically wrong when a business makes a profit by denying coverage or care for someone… and they are legally obligated to their stockholders to do so.
Makes me feel icky just talking about it.

I am so undecided about everything in this election….but Let’s start with healthcare like you said.

My non-profit experience:

I served in the Navy for 16 years and had the wonderful experience of dealing with the military’s system of organized medical and dental care.  The best care I ever received was at the Bethesda Naval Hospital (a teaching hospital and partner with the National Research Institute in Washington, D.C.), while the Tripler Army Medical Center in Hawaii (1988) did not serve us well…I almost died due to a severe infection and poor post partum care after my first was born (a long horror story from the first contraction), followed by negligent care (a botched spinal tap) of my first born when she had repeatedly stopped breathing and then further followed up by the hospital accusing my husband and I of abusing our darling daughter when they discovered a healed broken rib in an x-ray when she had a cold….to make a long story short: a forensic specialist that just happened to be speaking to the medical staff was asked to look at her case.  He determined that the break occurred three months prior and when they looked at the calendar it placed her smack dab in the middle of the two weeks that we had been living at the hospital 24/7 under the watchful eye of the doctors and nursing staff during her “Blue-spell” incidents…even right up to the day that the doctors had tried in vain for two hours to get a spinal tap to determine if she had spinal meningitis.  The final decision was that the doctor’s possibly broke her rib while performing the spinal tap procedure. ( We could not sue them, we both were active duty and active duty cannot sue the governement, we work for it…go figure.)  There are many other stories I could tell, but I digress…

Organized healthcare for all, on the face of it sounds like a great idea, but the back up in the system and the quality of care dramatically goes down, as some military folks will tell you.  The best care is centered on those facilities that are close to important government centers and where research is conducted.  Getting annual tests and check-ups, seeing a specialist for the care that you need is determined by the urgency and even then the possibility of being seen immediately is next to impossible, unless you are brought in to the Emergency on a stretcher.  I won’t even tell you about how many hours and long lines that we had to sit or stand in to finally see someone for the simplest of things. You do not get to choose your doctor…you get who you get.  Getting prescriptions filled can be a whole morning affair, because the lines are so long and they may not have the meds that you need and you will have to come back when they do have them.  Again, this will be determined by the facility that yo are assigned.  

We breathed a sigh of relief when my husband retired or when Tri-care in our area closed the hospital and their clinics to only active duty members and their families…we were finally allowed to go out and seek civilian care, where we could get appointments, choose our own doctor and hospital…if we didn’t like the care we received we could look elsewhere.  If we were in the system…we were stuck.  

If this is what the democrats are talking about…well, I don’t see the improvement…the only plus we had with this sort of care was that it was free…never convenient or easy…the paper work and channels you had to go through would drive you crazy. …but this is only my experience with it.

On the other hand…healthcare the way it is now is just as mind boggling, expensive and difficult….leaving those who may truly need it out in the cold with no where to turn.

To be honest, I have not heard a really good plan for improvements in healthcare from either party.  If there is, please, direct me to where I can be educated on it.  I am only going from I know…my experience.

Unfortunately there is no plan for non-compliant patients. That must be tremendously frustrating. I can also imagine it would be hard to work on drug addicts you know won’t even try to kick the habit that’s killing them… blah blah blah.
It seems to me if we could get a federal/state partnering of some sort then the waits won’t be so long… people have to wait as it is… sometimes forever because they could never pay the bills.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe 1.8 MILLION people declare bankruptcy EVERY YEAR due to medical bills. That is unacceptable to me. And most of those people have health insurance of some kind that didn’t cover what they needed.
Something HAS to be done… we have no where to go but up.

I believe that is true. Many people declare bankruptcy every year due to medical bills. It is unacceptable to me also. Insurance companies contract with hospitals on services. For instance, my son had a Cat scan done this year. The hospital charged almost 6k for this. But the contract for the service with this particular insurance co. was around $800. I work for this hospital. I could not believe that the original charge was 6k. I went to the utilization review department, but they had no explanation for this exuberant charge. Medicare is much the same. Medicaid will only pay very small amounts for charges, so the hospital has to eat it. It is a merry go round. The hospital is in a financial crisis, because of all the write offs. It is very sad state of affairs. It will only get worse. Medicare starting this next year will not pay if a patient gets a noscomial infection, urosepsis cause from a foley catheter or a pressure ulcer from a long term illness. As healthcare professionals our jobs are very difficult with shortages and red tape paper work. But it is going to get a lot worse. We need some kind of health care reform and quick.

Jesus’ girl – Is it really to keep the poor poor? Is it that intentional? Who is driving this? I think its more of a “me first” attitude that isn’t aimed at the poor but results in them being ignored. Either way, it’s terrible.

I think there should be a multilevel program. Everyone should be entitled to basic healthcare. If you want something extreme (like liposuction – sorry, I think that’s extreme) then you pay for it.

I also think the need to justify everything to insurance companies is ridiculous. (Insurance companies just don’t want to pay) I don’t think anyone needs to justify having a leg x-rayed. Who wants to do that just for the fun of it?

Justincase_girl – Absolutely!

psst…justincase_girl…thanks for starting this thread…I am appreciateing this conversation very much.

Annie—-thanks….and I’m sooo fortunate that her student loans are under $5000! She was lucky enough to get grants and tons of scholarship. Not without hard work and lots of late nights toiling away to get awesome grades. She’s driven…and I’m proud of her.
Grad school is another story…we‘re hoping for big grants and assistance. Even stranger—it’s my alma mater and it cost me $15K to go there a year for undergrad years ago. She’s up against $45K a year for her grad degree…but she’ll do it….we’ll do it….. :)

I digress….back to the issues at hand (oh, and don’t get me started on education and programs in schools..)

Annie123-Oops! Let me back off that statement I made (but only a little).  I believe it DOES keep the poor, poor.  But it may be as you say, from neglect, not intention.  Maybe both?  We can’t pretend it isn’t possible.  Are you familiar with the “system”  from the inside?  It really is a vicious cycle.

Shelbell-maybe that will actually cause some to be more diligent in their practices (to avoid nosochomial infections, pressure ulcers, etc.)  You‘re right though, in that we still need insurance to cover it to some extent.

How about the legislature some are considering that forces doctors and nurses to perform/assist with procedures they were otherwise able to decline due to their moral/ethical views?  How many will violate their own beliefs or change careers for this?  How…I don’t even have a word for that!!

I agree.  Name Calling never helps anything.  I am one for fair fighting and we can literally learn to disagree without offending anyone.

A doctor or nurse can decline (refuse) to assist in an abortion, etc.  The nurse could have refused to further assist the female doctor in the news recently who performed sterilization on that mentally challenged patient who was having surgery,  etc.  That sort of thing.  A nurse can refuse to assist a doctor who yells and/or swears at his patients, etc.  Not very good examples.  Sorry.  They can’t refuse to accept or care for a patient based on religious/sexual preference, etc.  That is discrimination.  A fine line it seems.  But if the ACTUAL procedure itself violates personal belief.  I have taken care of patients were were known registered sex offenders.  They were very well taken care of by me.  I treated them with the same loving kindness and compassion as anyone else.  I would not have assisted in rendering them impotent or something like that as a punishment, etc.  I know of an incident where a nurse told a doc in surgery “I think you broke a piece off that”  during a surgical procedure.  When the patient had problems, later discovered by another doc, it went to trial.  The nurse lost her license.  The doc is still in practice.  She could have refused to further assist him at that time.  Does this help as examples?

I have had severe carpal tunnel syndrome for almost 20 years.  I could have had the “release” surgey last year, paid for by insurance.  Although professionaly diagnosed, the insurance company would only pay if I first had the Nerve Conduction Study, which I was unable to tolerate.  That’s a whole lotta B.S.!!  (And I don’t mean “brandy snifter“!)

Sheperdess, on education, AMEN! My husband has been in education for 30 years and you say the words,“no child left behind” and he sees red. Someone must do something about the education of our children.

Our public schools here in my state are abysmal. The waiting list to get into his school, even with the 14,000 dollar plus price tag continues to grow. He’s been able to encourage benefactors to give more for financial aid which helps. But a handful of private schools can’t carry the whole load.

Interestingly enough, we‘re seeing an increase of Charter schools here and they are getting some positive press.

Don’t get me started on health care! Our state is losing doctors in droves because they can’t afford to live here. I don’t blame them. Who wants to pay $800,000. for a house that is in such bad shape it would fall down if the termites weren’t holding hands.

I love the termite comment too!  Or the cockroaches were marching, demanding better housing! (Was that Robin Williams?  Maybe George Carlin)

My younger daughter was part of the “no child left behind”  think.  She was on a 504 program at school.  She was diagnosed with ADD.  Actual ADD.  Easily distracted, couldn’t concentrate or stay on task.  I allowed Ritalin for a short time, but she withdrew socially.  The doc said I would have to choose between academics or social skills.  I chose social skills.  She was allowed more time to complete work, did not have to answer all the test questions, etc.  I was concerned about a cumulative effect, but was assured in early years that it was nothing to be concerned with.  In later years, she used it as an excuse, even manipulated a little bit and was rather irresponsible concerning schoolwork.  It was NOT the best way.  The disruptive kids were allowed to continue to be disruptive, rather than offend a parent or the school/doctor suggested medication to them also.  

One school year, I took my son to the doc because the school required me to.  The teacher said he did not do his work.  I pointed out it was the first 2 or 3 weeks of school and that after the transition period from summer, he would be a top student.  I recomended she speak to his previous teachers to confirm.  She said that she was trained to recognize the signs/symptoms of ADD.  Or ADHD, in this case.  I took him to the doc as required.  The doc never even looked at the kid!  He interupted my explaination of the situation and asked “What school?”  When I told him, he automatically wrote a ‘script for Ritalin.  We did not return to that doctor again.  My child did not take meds.  He was on the honor roll shortly after.  I couldn’t help but be smug when I had the opportunity to say “I told you so!”  to that teacher.

I still wouldn’t want her job, though!  I would be in jail.

OK I hate to pull out the double barrel… but here it goes. Something that really bothers me is watching Sarah Palin address her local church saying that the people of Alaska need to be right with God so the pipeline project will happen.
http://www.youtube.com/  

I have no problem with anyone having religious beliefs, but there is supposed to be a separation of church and state for a reason.  

Do I think that “God” needs to be removed from our money and pledge? No.  

Because “God” is a vague term… you could be pledging to Zeus for all I know. And the atheists can just skip that part. It doesn’t refer to one specific churc