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  • No Name Calling?!

    60 posts, 14 voices, 1416 views, started Sep 9, 2008

    Posted on Tuesday, September 9, 2008 by Rachael Sudul

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    • Amethyst
      Offline

      There have been a bunch of people arguing back and forth about name calling etc... those posts have HUNDREDS of people who view and reply.
      However when a post is written about the ACTUAL issues, no one regards it at all.
      I am more than happy to start slinging some mud if it will make people look deeper into the issues since that’s where all the focus should be right now.
      You say you want a better government? The people get the government they deserve because most people don’t do their homework.
      My guess is that most people put more energy into who their UPS driver is than who they will vote for to run their country.
      PLEASE, debate the issues!!! Here are some questions I would love to hear both sides of...

      What do you think about the specific issues...
      Healthcare
      War/Veterans
      Pro-Life/Pro-choice
      Economy

      I would love to hear what the Fab40 women think about the specifics on these issues...

      [Link Removed]

      [Link Removed]

      What are your biggest concerns and how does your candidate propose to solve those problems? Is that enough for you?

      I look forward to a healthy debate!

      Thanks!
      Rachael


      Justincase_girl, Your links have been removed, please consider upgrading to premium membership.



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Cheryl Phillips wrote Sep 9, 2008
        • AMEN!!!  Rachael I couldn’t agree more. Everyone has a right to a “voice” but it seems like it’s turning into debating everyone’s opinions instead of the real issues.  

          Rachael’s questions are great ones...let’s get to the issues and stop bashing each other for expressing what we’ve worked so hard to have—ohhhhur own personal opinion!

          Thanks...and thanks Rachael!!

          Cheryl



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          Rachael Sudul wrote Sep 9, 2008
        • Apparently you‘re the only one who agrees... no one wants to dive into the meat of this election...
          Too bad...



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          Rachael Sudul wrote Sep 9, 2008
        • Fantastic! I’ll get the wine...



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          Ladybug wrote Sep 9, 2008
        • I spent hours reading your comments and facts, arguments and namecalling. I think it’s all great. I learned more here than watching MSNBC and CNN. I see no left over bad feelings. You ladies will be friends forever. (once the election is over)
          Thank you justincase_girl for not tiring.



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          Ladybug wrote Sep 9, 2008
        • after all we are the pulse of the country, right?



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          Cheryl Phillips wrote Sep 9, 2008
        • Yes! So what’s our first topic? Healthcare anyone?



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          Rachael Sudul wrote Sep 9, 2008
        • I’ll take that one... Congress has their own government run health care plan and it is one of the best in the nation, go figure.

          With the federal government subsidizing 72 to 75 percent of the plan, an older senator and spouse pay as little as $290 a month in premiums.  

          In addition, senators and representatives also have access to a physician’s office with top doctors and the top-notch National Naval Medical Center.  

          You do not hear me complaining that they have this coverage, I just believe it should be afforded to every American citizen.

          Let me say that again... American Citizen.  

          Here’s where the Republican in me rears it’s ugly head! :)
          Yes there should be emergency medical care provided for everyone, it’s the only moral choice, but as far as paying for it... it seems to me that anyone visiting the US legally for a long amount of time (6 mos) should be obliged to buy health insurance (like car insurance) at a lower rate since they aren’t going to grow old here.

          I would never expect to get free health care in Canada as a US Citizen and I honestly don’t know how that works there as far as visitors needing their emergency services... anyone ever experienced a hospital stay in another country? Did you get a ginormous bill? Did you pay it? (had to ask!)

          Just thinking out loud here but a national plan is a good idea. It’s sad when prisoners have better coverage than 1/2 the families in the US...



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          Shelley Spehn wrote Sep 9, 2008
        • As a new member to this site, I was a little worried that I could not type in and make a comment without getting attacked by a simple innocent comment. But I was intrigued and educated by all that I had read.  I kept going back and reading more comments. I really am interested in what is on the minds of all of these intelligent woman.



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          Rachael Sudul wrote Sep 9, 2008
        • I think one of the major issues is that the health care system is for-profit... there is something tragically wrong when a business makes a profit by denying coverage or care for someone... and they are legally obligated to their stockholders to do so.
          Makes me feel icky just talking about it.



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          Shelley Spehn wrote Sep 9, 2008
        • I have worked as an RN in the hospital setting for over 26 years.I currently work in the ICU. The problems I see are, we give health care for free to people that have a history of noncompliance. We fix them to the best of our ability, but they do not follow their diets and treatment guidelines and their expectations are that they can follow the same behavior over and over again and that they should be taken care of no matter what their compliance is. I see others who cannot afford health care have no insurance and are worried about how they are going to pay for their bill. When they work and still cannot afford any insurance but make too much money to get government help. It is not fair that our system work like this.
          I have so much compassion for people and their health care crisis’s. I guide families through some of the worst days of their lives and patients through horrible deaths and recoveries. But, I lose faith in our health care system the way it is. I am not sure if universal health care will change any thing except, if its like Canada delay treatment for people that need it. It is a very challenging issue.



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          Amy L. Harden wrote Sep 9, 2008
        • I am so undecided about everything in this election....but Let's start with healthcare like you said.

          My non-profit experience:

          I served in the Navy for 16 years and had the wonderful experience of dealing with the military's system of organized medical and dental care.  The best care I ever received was at the Bethesda Naval Hospital (a teaching hospital and partner with the National Research Institute in Washington, D.C.), while the Tripler Army Medical Center in Hawaii (1988) did not serve us well...I almost died due to a severe infection and poor post partum care after my first was born (a long horror story from the first contraction), followed by negligent care (a botched spinal tap) of my first born when she had repeatedly stopped breathing and then further followed up by the hospital accusing my husband and I of abusing our darling daughter when they discovered a healed broken rib in an x-ray when she had a cold....to make a long story short: a forensic specialist that just happened to be speaking to the medical staff was asked to look at her case.  He determined that the break occurred three months prior and when they looked at the calendar it placed her smack dab in the middle of the two weeks that we had been living at the hospital 24/7 under the watchful eye of the doctors and nursing staff during her "Blue-spell" incidents...even right up to the day that the doctors had tried in vain for two hours to get a spinal tap to determine if she had spinal meningitis.  The final decision was that the doctor's possibly broke her rib while performing the spinal tap procedure. ( We could not sue them, we both were active duty and active duty cannot sue the governement, we work for it...go figure.)  There are many other stories I could tell, but I digress...

          Organized healthcare for all, on the face of it sounds like a great idea, but the back up in the system and the quality of care dramatically goes down, as some military folks will tell you.  The best care is centered on those facilities that are close to important government centers and where research is conducted.  Getting annual tests and check-ups, seeing a specialist for the care that you need is determined by the urgency and even then the possibility of being seen immediately is next to impossible, unless you are brought in to the Emergency on a stretcher.  I won't even tell you about how many hours and long lines that we had to sit or stand in to finally see someone for the simplest of things. You do not get to choose your doctor...you get who you get.  Getting prescriptions filled can be a whole morning affair, because the lines are so long and they may not have the meds that you need and you will have to come back when they do have them.  Again, this will be determined by the facility that yo are assigned.  

          We breathed a sigh of relief when my husband retired or when Tri-care in our area closed the hospital and their clinics to only active duty members and their families...we were finally allowed to go out and seek civilian care, where we could get appointments, choose our own doctor and hospital...if we didn't like the care we received we could look elsewhere.  If we were in the system...we were stuck.  

          If this is what the democrats are talking about...well, I don't see the improvement...the only plus we had with this sort of care was that it was free...never convenient or easy...the paper work and channels you had to go through would drive you crazy. ...but this is only my experience with it.

          On the other hand...healthcare the way it is now is just as mind boggling, expensive and difficult....leaving those who may truly need it out in the cold with no where to turn.

          To be honest, I have not heard a really good plan for improvements in healthcare from either party.  If there is, please, direct me to where I can be educated on it.  I am only going from I know...my experience.



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          Rachael Sudul wrote Sep 9, 2008
        • Unfortunately there is no plan for non-compliant patients. That must be tremendously frustrating. I can also imagine it would be hard to work on drug addicts you know won’t even try to kick the habit that’s killing them... blah blah blah.
          It seems to me if we could get a federal/state partnering of some sort then the waits won’t be so long... people have to wait as it is... sometimes forever because they could never pay the bills.
          Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe 1.8 MILLION people declare bankruptcy EVERY YEAR due to medical bills. That is unacceptable to me. And most of those people have health insurance of some kind that didn’t cover what they needed.
          Something HAS to be done... we have no where to go but up.



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          Shelley Spehn wrote Sep 9, 2008
        • I believe that is true. Many people declare bankruptcy every year due to medical bills. It is unacceptable to me also. Insurance companies contract with hospitals on services. For instance, my son had a Cat scan done this year. The hospital charged almost 6k for this. But the contract for the service with this particular insurance co. was around $800. I work for this hospital. I could not believe that the original charge was 6k. I went to the utilization review department, but they had no explanation for this exuberant charge. Medicare is much the same. Medicaid will only pay very small amounts for charges, so the hospital has to eat it. It is a merry go round. The hospital is in a financial crisis, because of all the write offs. It is very sad state of affairs. It will only get worse. Medicare starting this next year will not pay if a patient gets a noscomial infection, urosepsis cause from a foley catheter or a pressure ulcer from a long term illness. As healthcare professionals our jobs are very difficult with shortages and red tape paper work. But it is going to get a lot worse. We need some kind of health care reform and quick.



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          Rachael Sudul wrote Sep 9, 2008
        • I agree that the education system also needs to be reformed... seems to me that if you are going to go into a “service” industry that will serve your community, ie doctors, nurses, teachers etc then you should receive discounted tuition or tax break or something!



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          Cheryl Phillips wrote Sep 9, 2008
        • I am not sure how I’d survive without insurance, especially in light of the two major surgeries I’ve had this year and one more coming up. However, my second surgery may have been avoided if Blue Cross said “OK” to a drug that I needed to take that is mostly used for diabetics. I am not a diabetic, but the condition I have called RSD or CRPS is a regional pain syndrome that affects the nerves, typically after a very invasive surgery. My surgeon caught on to the symptoms really quickly where others may have ignored them saying I was just being sensitive. (yes, sensitive...I had 5 children without pain meds...) So, they denied the meds even after 3 letters from my doctor saying that if my condition got worse it would slow down or halt my healing. The prescription was $600 a month...more than I could afford as a single Mom. I could get a week’s worth of samples—but I needed more than a week’s worth of meds. So...what to do? Well, I need to feed my children and give them shelter so I went without and we tried alternate methods. All the while people are getting prescriptions for narcotics like percoset and oxycontin without a blink of the eye...and if I said “ouch” I could get all I wanted too...Blue Cross had no issue providing me with things to knock me out but wouldn’t approve something to help me get better. In the end, my leg became so painful and stiff that arthofibrosis set in and I had to have another 3 hour surgery to correct this. It worked to a point, but alot of damage had already been done. Now I’m facing a total knee replacement. Can you imagine....two months of a $600 drug vs over $45,000 in surgery bills that Blue Cross is covering...and more to come.

          I find our health care “for profit” system a pitiful shame. I’d be in the hell hole without it but in some ways, I went in the hell hole with it. Buy groeries or take meds? I’m not sure...but I have three young kids at home and two in college....they come first.

          There’s got to be some change. My oldest is finishing her BS in nursing and going on to get her grad degree in anesthesia.....I’m sure I’ll get even more of an inside look when she is on the “inside“............



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          Amy L. Harden wrote Sep 9, 2008
        • psst...justincase_girl...thanks for starting this thread...I am appreciateing this conversation very much.



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          Shelley Spehn wrote Sep 9, 2008
        • Every insurance company is for profit, My sister is an RN also she worked for an insurance company for a few years. The Directors were physicians that were very wealthy. she had to fight for patients health care. They would deny many claims of people that really needed it.l



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          Cheryl Phillips wrote Sep 9, 2008
        • Annie—-thanks....and I’m sooo fortunate that her student loans are under $5000! She was lucky enough to get grants and tons of scholarship. Not without hard work and lots of late nights toiling away to get awesome grades. She’s driven...and I’m proud of her.
          Grad school is another story...we‘re hoping for big grants and assistance. Even stranger—it’s my alma mater and it cost me $15K to go there a year for undergrad years ago. She’s up against $45K a year for her grad degree...but she’ll do it....we’ll do it..... :)

          I digress....back to the issues at hand (oh, and don’t get me started on education and programs in schools..)



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          Amy L. Harden wrote Sep 9, 2008
        • OH..yes...please let’s go to Education and Programs in Schools...Standards of Learning, Teaching to the Test...all the other jazz that the “No Child Left Behind” program has done to make sure that many children are left behind AND so many teachers decide to explore other careers that are more fulfilling. If I could Home School...I would Home school or if there was a charter school and we had gotten the vouchers that Bush had promised...my kids would be going there, instead of Public School. (this was one of the reasons why I voted for Bush...twice...please forgive me...I am a trusting soul!)

          Please let’s talk about about Education!



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          Talkytina wrote Sep 10, 2008
        • I agree.  Name Calling never helps anything.  I am one for fair fighting and we can literally learn to disagree without offending anyone.



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          Rachael Sudul wrote Sep 10, 2008
        • This is a fabulous conversation thus far... thank you all!
          Shepherdess... you brought up “no child left behind” which is another thorn in my side. My very dear friend was a teacher for emotionally challenged kids in Houston and that program was horrendous for her. SHe is an amazing teacher. (she now teaches at a private school here in Louisiana) Her students were sent to school with a coke and a doughnut, and when they had behavioral issues in the class, she would call the parents and get cussed out for bothering them and that their children were doing nothing wrong, that she was racist, blah blah blah.
          To me that program is one more reason for parents and society at large to point their fingers at teachers for failing rather than taking some personal responsibility and teaching their kids to be responsible! This mentality is ruining our country from one side to the other.
          Are there poor teachers out there who should find other jobs? Of Course!! But for the most part, these are men and women who desperately love kids and want them to succeed. But we can’t put the blame or give complete credit to these teachers for test scores...
          This idea of shifting blame anywhere but on yourself is crippling our nation.
          We have just gone through Hurricane Gustav. Yes there are people who lost a lot but in our own area, the lines for free foodstamps and water and tarps was ludicrous.
          I do not condemn those who truly need assistance, but it all breeds a sense that government will rescue you from everything.
          It even translates that way when the government paid out millions of dollars to the people who lost their lives during 9/11, and the bailing out of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and Amtrak.
          Don’t get me wrong, 9/11 was one of the most tragic events to happen on our soil in our country’s history, but it made a lot of people millionaires. Why are we so guilt ridden?
          THe government should help bridge between normalcy and catastrophe but not to someone’s benefit.
          Whether it be for health care, education, foreign policy, etc. at the end of the day we are all responsible for ourselves and we need to reach out to those who need a helping hand... not drag them around until we let go.

          Wow not sure how many issues I just covered... but oh well!



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          Cynthia Schmidt wrote Sep 10, 2008
        • Sheperdess, on education, AMEN! My husband has been in education for 30 years and you say the words,“no child left behind” and he sees red. Someone must do something about the education of our children.

          Our public schools here in my state are abysmal. The waiting list to get into his school, even with the 14,000 dollar plus price tag continues to grow. He’s been able to encourage benefactors to give more for financial aid which helps. But a handful of private schools can’t carry the whole load.

          Interestingly enough, we‘re seeing an increase of Charter schools here and they are getting some positive press.

          Don’t get me started on health care! Our state is losing doctors in droves because they can’t afford to live here. I don’t blame them. Who wants to pay $800,000. for a house that is in such bad shape it would fall down if the termites weren’t holding hands.



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          Rachael Sudul wrote Sep 10, 2008
        • “If the termites weren’t holding hands” HA HA HA HA!!!!
          I will have to shamefully steal that line from you!!!!

          We should all take a look at the school that Andre Aggasi(sp?), tennis star, started in Las Vegas. It is a public school and they require parents to sign a contract to be an active part of their child’s education. There are consequences if you don’t follow through... imagine that?!

          They are having a tremendous success rate.



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          Rachael Sudul wrote Sep 10, 2008
        • You have brought up another fantastic issue relating to health care... an over medicated society! We are so quick to pop pills to solve any kind of issue it’s crazy!!!! The scary thing is the amount of hormones in the water and foods etc, we‘re taking meds even if we choose not to... there was someone on this site writing about having too much estrogen because of the foods and environment etc and how it’s throwing everyone out of whack.... i hope she joins the conversation...

          I couldn’t be a teacher either... we’d be cell mates.

          It’s scary how many public school teachers have their own children in private school... doesn’t say much for our schools...



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          Rachael Sudul wrote Sep 10, 2008
        • OK I hate to pull out the double barrel... but here it goes. Something that really bothers me is watching Sarah Palin address her local church saying that the people of Alaska need to be right with God so the pipeline project will happen.

          I have no problem with anyone having religious beliefs, but there is supposed to be a separation of church and state for a reason.  

          Do I think that “God” needs to be removed from our money and pledge? No.  

          Because “God” is a vague term... you could be pledging to Zeus for all I know. And the atheists can just skip that part. It doesn’t refer to one specific church or belief so I don’t have an issue with it.

          I do have an issue with the Extreme Christian Right Wing Conservative/Evangelist group and the power they have in the Republican Conservative base. It becomes an “EXclusive” group rather than an “INclusive” group... if you‘re not right with God... Brimstone, Hell, etc.  

          If I want that direction in my life I can choose a church to attend, I don’t need my government to legislate morality. It doesn’t work.

          Government is for all not just the “Christians“...

          I was brought up Presbyterian by the way... that’s a whole different subject!



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          Rachael Sudul wrote Sep 10, 2008
        • We will respectfully agree to disagree in regards to Ms Palin. I do not think she is a strong Christian leader since she is pro-war... but that is a theological discussion not really a political one.
          I am also pro-choice, the same choice that was afforded Bristol Palin should be afforded to all Americans. Again, I don’t think government should legislate morality.
          There may be one God in your life, but that God differs in many American lives and they MUST be respected.
          I’m ok with a moment of silence in schools that can be used for prayer, but when a prayer is lead in a particular direction, it does deeply effect people and should be left for the home and church of their choice. If prayer in school is very important to an individual, that person has every right to put their child in a Christian, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim school of their choice.
          I am not a big fan of organized religion either....



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          Rachael Sudul wrote Sep 10, 2008
        • I agree that organized religion has it’s place... I have personally seen such hypocrisy in the church I personally have a difficult time with it... that being said, I am VERY spiritual, believe in God, and send my children to a Christian school where they will learn about Jesus, responsibility, service, and prayer.
          I just think there is a lack of compassion in the organized religion... not for their own congregation, but “non-believers“... they are intolerable for them... the damnation is spread much quicker than the love and I find that so depressing because I love what church should be. What I believe Jesus taught.
          The most frustrating part politically is that it is a great divide for people. The basis of all religions rests in love and kindness and generosity. Why one religion can’t allow other people to believe in a different way without condemning is beyond me. And why government has to perpetuate the divide is crazy to me...
          I wish jesus‘girl would’ve stuck around to talk about some of these issues ... I would’ve loved to hear why she thinks Sarah Palin is a strong Christian leader... I honestly don’t see it... what does that mean to someone who believes wholeheartedly in one religion?
          I am honestly throwing that question out there...



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Rachael Sudul wrote Sep 11, 2008
        • I just wonder about Christians who can get behind a war... maybe this is turning way to theological... and I am happy to leave it alone if it ruffles too many feathers...
          How many people have to die in the name of any God?
          The same church that Sarah Palin attends, invited a guest speaker, a prominent figure in the group “Jews For Jesus” (a Christian group that tries to convert Jews to Christianity) that the terrorist attacks against the Jews in Israel is God’s way of “judging” them for not “believing“....
          Here’s the article with quotes from the speaker...
          [Link Removed]
          I thought your religion and spirituality is a personal relationship with Jesus or God... what is the point of spreading this craziness.  

          I just want an intelligent, calm, respectful, stern, person in office.  

          Not a Christian Leader, or a Jewish Leader, or a Whatever Leader... just an AMERICAN Leader...
          Is that too much to ask?


          Justincase_girl, Your links have been removed, please consider upgrading to premium membership.



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          Rachael Sudul wrote Sep 11, 2008
        • OK... I have a feeling that this is a roundabout conversation and I would love to talk about other issues...
          Immigration....
          Any takers?
          I am from CA and now live in Louisiana... and I honestly throw my hands in the air on this one because I can see both sides...
          I would love to hear your thoughts, ladies!



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Lisa Fleming wrote Sep 11, 2008
        • I personally dont know who I want in office yet but I must say that I would lean toward someone who prays about the decisions he makes.



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          Rachael Sudul wrote Sep 11, 2008
        • Lisa04 - I agree that I want someone with a good head on his shoulders and prays about what they do... that I do not have a problem with whatsoever... In fact I want someone conscious of their actions for all involved.

          What I do not want is a leader with religious blinders on that will disregard the thinking and beliefs of a portion of the country they will be leading.

          All religion is based in love and forgiveness and compassion and responsibility. Those are the qualities I want in a leader regardless of their particular faith, and I think it is a positive trait to have a faith in something. It tells me you can think beyond yourself and your own perception.



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          Cynthia Schmidt wrote Sep 11, 2008
        • I agree. This is a nice discussion. Good productive ideas here. Whenever a president is elected he/she/it must start remembering how they got there. By majority vote. Then they have to remember who put them in office, we did. They work for us. We hired them, we can fire them in 4 years. Politicians are puffing themselves up too much. I think it’s time they are reminded that they are public servants.

          How’s that for a ridiculously idealistic view of politics? I only wish it were that simple.

          By the way, the termite comment is up for grabs! Use it to your hearts content!  

          Nice day, ladies
          thanks for the pleasant discussion



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