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  • So, here's controversial for ya...

    +2
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    39 posts, 24 voices, 1497 views, started Jul 15, 2009

    Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2009 by Laurie Zieber

    •  



    • Garnett
      Offline

      Thanks for starting this group! I enjoy a discussion where each side communicates their position or belief and each side understands that listening is more than waiting for the other person to stop talking.  

      The reason that this group was created at a great time for me, is because of this:

        

       

      [Link Removed]

      Walter Hoye is our guest at  She Speaks To Inspire next Tuesday, July 21st.  He is fully committed to the pro life movement. Among other activities, he stands near the entrance to the abortion clinic, carrying a sign that reads, “God Loves You and Your Baby“.  

      In Oakland, California, the city passed a law preventing any American from exercising their right to free speech and to gather peacefully to protest, if they were  within 100 feet of an abortion clinic.  

      Walter Hoye was arrested and sentenced in Oakland, in 2008, for the crime of holding the sign that I described, and asking permission to speak with a woman who was entering the clinic.
      He was arrested again in 2009. When the judge told Walter that he would issue probation, as long as Walter promised to stop holding the sign near the clinic, Walter told the judge that he was unable to make that promise.

      I think, virtually, all of us can understand why the employees of the clinics would be very concerned about their safety based on the extreme actions of some misguided, hate driven activists. So, aside from that...

      Here’s my polling questions:

      1. Are you pro life or pro choice on the abortion issue?
      2. Have you changed your stand on the issue from one belief to the other as you have grown older?
      3. How do you respond to the arrest and sentencing of Walter Hoye, knowing that his actions were within his constitutional rights?
      4. Is there any argument, at all, that would persuade you to think differently about the abortion issue than you do?  

      Thanks!- Laurie


      Beinspired, Your links have been removed, please consider upgrading to premium membership.

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      •  


        • +3 votes vote up vote up

          Vikki Hall wrote Jul 15, 2009
        • Laurie I am pro choice. I have been pro choice always. Not because I believe abortion is right in all cases but because I believe it’s a personal decision.

           A personal decision that an individual has a right to. I know this is contradictory to alot of faith based beliefs but my faith is between me and God. And when it comes down to it it will be my life that I will stand in judgement for before Him.

           I don’t think there is an arguement that could change my opinion but I am always open to listening.
          No I don’t think Mr Hoye should have been arrested if he was there in a peaceful way. I also don’t think he should have been put on probation either. However if the land was privately owned the owners do have a right to ask him to leave.
          I do look forwards to hearing the program next week.



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        • +2 votes vote up vote up

          Daphne wrote Jul 15, 2009
        • 1.) I am pro-choice...but don’t mistake that for my supporting abortion.  I believe that a person’s conscience should be his/her guide.
          2.) I do not recall a time when i was not pro-choice.
          3.) I find it ludicris that there is just cause in denying anyone their constitutional rights. If the abortion clinics are guaranteed 100 feet for safety, so should all churches, ethnic gathering places, factories, furriers, etc. You can’t pick and choose where a person’s constitutional rights apply. You either have them or you don’t...and Americans DO.
          4.) As stated in my answer to #1, i believe that a person’s conscience should be his/her guide.  If you can live with your decisions, you should be able to make your choices.  I don’t believe i could do it...but it’s not for me to say that someone else cannot.  I still feel guilty for having our sick pet hamster euthanized 10 years ago.  Perhaps my position seems lazy or uninterested...but i try hard to live my life to the best of my ability, without imposing my will upon others, and i don’t hold anyone to a standard any higher than i am able to achieve personally.  For this reason, i believe we all are  personally responsibile for our own actions, to include the protestors, the abortion doctors and the women who terminate a pregnancy.  

          I choose to not judge others if i can help it at all.



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        • +2 votes vote up vote up

          UK Girl wrote Jul 15, 2009
        • Even though I'm a Catholic I'm very much for choice as my view is who knows what choice you would have to make in certain circumstances – but I do believe everyone should have a voice.
          What I do find tragic is that in the UK amongst teenagers abortion is used as a form of birth control & we are now seeing girls aged 17 who are on their 3rd abortion ........ that is sad and lack of eduction.



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Vikki Hall wrote Jul 15, 2009
        • Very well said Daphne!



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        • +2 votes vote up vote up

          Mz. Queen wrote Jul 15, 2009
        • 1. Are you pro life or pro choice on the abortion issue? Pro- choice

          2. Have you changed your stand on the issue from one belief to the other as you have grown older? Always pro-choice

          3. How do you respond to the arrest and sentencing of Walter Hoye, knowing that his actions were within his constitutional rights? If he was trespassing on private property he deserved what he got.

          4. Is there any argument, at all, that would persuade you to think differently about the abortion issue than you do? No.



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        • +2 votes vote up vote up

          Tuliplady wrote Jul 15, 2009
        • 1)I am now pro-choice.  Like Daphne, that does not mean I support abortion.  I believe it is a woman’s right to choose, not have some male legislators tell her what she can or cannot do.

          2)Yes, I have changed my stand over the years.  Abortion was a HOT ballot issue in our state a couple years ago.  I had always been pro-life, but when a bunch of men start telling me that I CAN‘T do something, I get really steamed.  Age has made a difference as well.  I’m 42.  If I got pregnant tomorrow (not likely), there’s no way I’d want to carry that baby, especially since any child of mine stands a 1 in 4 chance of profound birth defects.  

          3)The arrest and sentencing of Walter Hoye is simply ridiculous.  It is a trampling of our constitutional rights and it should be causing riots in the streets.

          4) My answer to #2 makes it obvious that yes, arguements have swayed me to an extent.  I’m still basicly against abortion, but sometimes it’s an only option.  And if someone needs one, she shouldn’t have to worry about whether it’s legal or not.



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        • +2 votes vote up vote up

          Cindylouwho1966 wrote Jul 15, 2009
        • Laurie and I have already discussed my pro-choice stance, since as producer of this show, I felt she needed to know. Since it is not a debate show, I am fine with the issue of free speech.  

          My stance has not changed, and as Daphne (well-put, as always) said: pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion.

          I am more pro-sex-education so abortion doesn’t have to be an issue.



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Fraz764 wrote Jul 15, 2009
        • I am pro choice. Daphne’s answer reflects my feelings very well.



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Angelcart wrote Jul 15, 2009
        • I like your answer Lu.



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        • +1 votes vote up vote up

          Deb Darby wrote Jul 15, 2009
        • I am pro-life.
          In my 20’s, I drove a friend to her abortion. Now I would encourage her not to go through with it and steer her to explore her options of carrying the baby to term and raising it or placing it for adoption with a loving family. There is an abundance of help available now that was not so in the 1970’s.
          I greatly admire Walter, especially that he answers to the Higher Authority of Liberty while attempting to give a message of hope to women (and men, by the way). As frightening as an unplanned pregnancy is, abortion is extremely harmful to mothers, fathers and the soul and psyche of societies. See silentnomoreawareness dot org.
          The only way that I would change my mind about abortion is if it could be proven that what’s located in a woman’s uterus is not a person created in the image of God.



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        • +1 votes vote up vote up

          Termite wrote Jul 15, 2009
        • Pro choice. I do not support abortion, but I feel it is our right to have a choice. Especially under certain circumstances.



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        • +1 votes vote up vote up

          Lazylola wrote Jul 15, 2009
        • 1. Are you pro life or pro choice on the abortion issue? Pro choice.

          2. Have you changed your stand on the issue from one belief to the other as you have grown older?  

          3. How do you respond to the arrest and sentencing of Walter Hoye, knowing that his actions were within his constitutional rights? He may have been within his constitutional rights, but from how I read it, he was breaking the law by being near the clinic, there is no mention of how near or far he stood, but I gather it was within the scope of where the arrest was made on grounds that he was in violation of the law passed by the city. He also states he cannot promise to uphold the law. The arrest appears to be legit.

          4. Is there any argument, at all, that would persuade you to think differently about the abortion issue than you do?   No.  

          While I do not condone abortion, I also do not believe a woman should be stripped of her choice. Education and birth control options should be made available to all sexually active individuals, I understand some parents take issue with sex education in schools, but these same parents also are not willing to educate their children themselves. For many parents including myself it is an uncomfortable topic, but we must get past it and keep the lines of communication open between us and our children. I happen to live on the same block as the Family Planning Clinic, and within 2 blocks is Planned Parenthood. I’ve advised my children to feel free to stop there at any time if they feel uncomfortable talking to me.



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Mz. Queen wrote Jul 15, 2009
        • How refreshing today’s post have been.



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Mz. Queen wrote Jul 16, 2009
        • Annie put into words what I may have left out but was thinking,feeling and trying to say.



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Tina Sickinger wrote Jul 16, 2009
        • 1.) Pro life ~ Do not believe in abortion as I believe abortion to be murder in it’s earliest form.

          2.) Have you changed your stand? ~ No...always been Pro life

          3.) Response to arrest of Walter Hoye ~ Saddened... Our Constitution has become a pick and choose as have many other issues over the years to suit the topic of the day and times...This is not how it was intended to be.

          4.) Argument to sway my opinion? ~ None...No matter what the cause of the pregnancy, it is the way GOD intended it to be or it would not BE, therefore, we should not kill what is created by GOD. If HE chooses that life to be wrong, he will end it Himself before it begins.

          I would like to add that as a Christian I for one concern myself more with GOD’s laws than with man’s laws. I realize that does not get the popular vote these days, but the popular vote will not get you into Heaven.



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Cindylouwho1966 wrote Jul 17, 2009
        • I have a big problem with the fact that this is a “crime” only a woman can commit. A man can choose to walk away.



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Sandy H. wrote Jul 17, 2009
        • Pro choice here too..



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Doreen XoXo wrote Jul 17, 2009
        • 1. Are you pro life or pro choice on the abortion issue?  

             Pro-Choice
          2. Have you changed your stand on the issue from one belief to the other as you have grown older?  

             Still Pro Choice
          3. How do you respond to the arrest and sentencing of Walter Hoye, knowing that his actions were within his constitutional rights?  

             Dont believe he should have been arrested.  Unless of course he was trespassing.
          4. Is there any argument, at all, that would persuade you to think differently about the abortion issue than you do?    

             ABSOLUTELY NOT!

          xoxo



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Vikki Hall wrote Jul 17, 2009
        • I love how everyone has been able to clearly define their view and there were no harsh comments from anyone. Everyone’s comments were great and definitely gives me more to think on....



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        • +1 votes vote up vote up

          Coachmombabe wrote Jul 17, 2009
        • I like the distinction between being pro-choice and pro-abortion. It’s true that we do have a choice. Even if we could legislate that abortion would be illegal, it doesn’t eliminate the fact that there is still a choice to abort or not to abort.

          I am pro life. I am pro life for the unborn, the moms, the dads the grandparents, the children’s children. I do not believe that the life of the unborn is more important that anyone else, they are just more helpless. God loves everyone. Those who do choose to have abortions, do so because they believe their reasons for doing so are the best. My position is not to convince them that they are wrong, but to present a broader scope of possibilities. And then to be as supportive as possible should they choose to honor life.  

          Judgment never changes someone’s heart. Love, acceptance, forgiveness...always the bottom line.



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Cindylouwho1966 wrote Jul 17, 2009
        • Coach, I like your perspective. You give pro-life a better image than the loonies who are shooting doctors.



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Vikki Hall wrote Jul 17, 2009
        • Really! Coach..... is that why we call you Coach? Because you do teach us a more positive outlook.



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Owlmaria wrote Jul 17, 2009
        • The ladies have said it all; Berni has once again put it in the most elegant manner. Factual, informative & said in a respectful way.
          I cannot add anything, as I agree with most of the comments made. happy



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Doreen XoXo wrote Jul 17, 2009
        • Kudos to Bernadette!  Very well stated.



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Coachmombabe wrote Jul 17, 2009
        • Bernadette, you are absolutely right! Women who do choose abortion have their reasons for doing so (those you mentioned and probably more), and many feel that they are also honoring life. It’s not my position to judge them, but I do seek to offer an alternative.



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Coachmombabe wrote Jul 17, 2009
        • Bernadette, you are very articulate and express yourself well. I appreciate your perspective, and have to say I cannot disagree with you on the dangers illegal abortions posed for many women and girls. I can hear your heart as you speak in defense of those who have been, or might be victimized, and I know you have a deep compassion and desire to see women treated with great dignity and respect. I believe that although we have differing approaches, we both desire to see things improve greatly for the quality of life for women.  

          I also agree that this issue is highly complex. I, too, have never been raped, or even experienced an untimely pregnancy. I cannot even say what I would have done. I do have friends who have had abortions, and I know their decision was not taken lightly.  

          Thank you for your well thought out responses, and your genuine acceptance of differing views. I have enjoyed our conversations here today!



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Doreen XoXo wrote Jul 18, 2009
        • Thank you so much Bernadette and Coachmom.  Both of you ladies are so very well versed in not just this discussion but about many things.  You both inspire me.

          xoxo



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Marilyn09 wrote Jul 19, 2009
        • 1.  Pro Life- Definately. I dont judge anyone on the choices they chose to make.
          2. I used to be pro choice- But as I have grown I have found that life is a precious precious thing to be honored.
          3. How do you respond to the arrest and sentencing of Walter Hoye, knowing that his actions were within his constitutional rights? Why does everyone say he was trespassing?
          4. Is there any argument, at all, that would persuade you to think differently about the abortion issue than you do?   I am pretty committed on pro life.



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Mztracy wrote Aug 22, 2009
        • Pro-choice!

          As for Walter...where r the doctors rights when the pro-lifers kill them. And in a church.

          They are in fear for their safety, so if you come to close to me, especially after one of yours murdered, I’d have u arrested as well.

          As for ‘late-term’ abortions, they are not done to just get rid of of a child.
          Some, maybe, and that is their conscious to live with.

          I knew someone who had one as if she had delivered she most likely would have died, and the baby would not have been viable. And people yelled at her called her names. Sick and twisted. And most late terms are for these reasons.

          My mom was a head nurse in and ob/gyn office for years.
          If anyone thinks abortion is a simple choice.... think again.  

          I saw and have seen the pain in the faces of women who have had them. Who is the person to judge their reasons. He who is without sin cast the first stone.



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Wendy Williams wrote Aug 22, 2009
        • I agree with the pro-choice women who commented. Anything I have to say would just be repetitive.  I also believe in Free Speech.  The only thing I would say is that Walter Should have gotten approval to be there with his sign. Disobeying the law doesn’t look good no matter what side you are on and if it was private property then he knew he was not supposed to be there and should have respected that law. It would not have taken much for him to get approval and found out where the he would be allowed to stand.  I understand where he was coming from and I feel for his need to reach out to the women there but coming from a women who used to be apart of the union I know you do better when the law is on your side.  I may not agree with his beliefs but I will fight to the death for his right to say it.



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