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  • When Do You Believe The Rapture Will Occur?

    30 posts, 16 voices, 925 views, started Jan 5, 2009

    Posted on Monday, January 5, 2009 by Cheryl Guy

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    • Garnett
      Offline

      Some of the ladies here on Fab40 recently discussed the “end of time” & has sparked my curiosity on what different beliefs we have about the rapture. I found the following article regarding the different time frames in which the rapture may occur.

          *  Pre-Tribulation Rapture: (or “pre-trib“) The Rapture happens just before the Tribulation, so that believers will not have to experience any of its disruption and pain. The main difficulties with pre-trib are contained in the Olivet Prophecy of Jesus. In Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, Jesus describes the terrible destruction and loss of life of the tribulation period. The disaster is believed to be so intense that no human (Christian or non-Christian alike) would remain alive, except that God shortens the duration of the disaster for the sake of the believers. Jesus then continues by describing his return towards earth immediately after the terrible devastation. From this passage, it is obvious that the rapture will follow the Tribulation. The supporters of the “pre-trib” position suggest that Jesus will have a total of three comings: the first during the first century CE; the second at the start of the tribulation, and a third at the end of the tribulation.

          * Post-tribulation Rapture: (or “post-trib“) The faithful experience the full horrors of the entire Tribulation and are raptured only at the end of the 7 years. The main problem with this theory is that there are many Bible passages which state that Christ’s return will be at a time that cannot be predicted. But the Tribulation period starts with the arrival of the Antichrist and an interval of peace. Precisely 42 months later, a sudden shift occurs, a peace treaty is broken, and devastation begins. These would be well defined dates that would allow an accurate prediction of the end of the Tribulation. There are other weaknesses to this theory. 7

          * Mid-Tribulation Rapture: (or “mid-trib“) The Rapture happens 42 months into the Tribulation. Up to that time, the Antichrist brings peace to the world. After 42 months, events take a sudden turn for the worse. Some supporters of the “mid-trib” position suggest that there will be many mini-raptures.

          * Pre-wrath Rapture: This is a new theory, promoted by Marvin Rosenthal, former director of Friends of Israel, and others. Their view teaches that the church must experience most of the Tribulation, and then be raptured towards the end of the Tribulation period.

          * Partial Rapture: This theory teaches that the faithful born-again believers are raptured just before the Tribulation. Newly born again believers are are raptured during or at the end of the Tribulation.

      What are your thoughts?



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          Rhonda Giarraffa wrote Jan 5, 2009
        • Wow, thanks for the inspiration to start asking more questions regarding the rapture. I thought is was much simpler than this. Great to study this and grasp onto the best understanding I can from the bible. I love when topics like this are written about.

          Thanks for bringing it up...



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          Mary Clark wrote Jan 18, 2009
        • Annie....the answer to your question is....(keep in mind..Christians believe this).....their are stages to the end.  WE don’t know how long those stages last...each stage could be years....but...nevertheless...at the end...those people who have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior will enter into the kingdom of heaven.  Those who have not...will I guess go to hell.  The Jews are God’s chosen people and will enter into heaven first no matter what.  I’ll have to read up on it a bit more to get all of the facts and details straight.  

          We talked a little about this tonight....one person was stating that somewhere in the Bible it states that two will be in a bed...one will be taken (to heaven) and one won’t.  That is the first I’ve heard of this but will read up on it so more.  The book of Revelations is the book to read...but...there are other books of the Bible that elaborate as well.  It’s a fascinating story.  We were talking about that tonight....especially the Old Testament.  

          All I know is that I have accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.  He states that no one will enter heaven except through HIM. If the end of time happens in my lifetime...I’m not worried about it...because I know where I’m going.  I take great comfort in that.  And you don’t get to heaven just on your good deeds....you‘re a nice person...you get there through Jesus Christ...the son of God.
          As I read more of the Bible....I will share more if any of you are interested in discussing it.



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          Mztracy wrote Jan 18, 2009
        • Hmmm, so basically if you do not believe in jesus, as many religions do not....your not going to be saved??

          I just do not buy it. IMHO estatic



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Mary Clark wrote Jan 18, 2009
        • Yes mam’



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          Denise Alleyne-Hill wrote Jan 18, 2009
        • maryclark that’s what I was taught also..I heard it’s not enough just to claim being religious, or a believer, but you have to accept Jesus as your personal savior..Although I fall short, I have accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior, so I really don’t concern myself with WHEN the rapture is coming, just trying to stay right. I do know the days are coming very close to it.

          Some will say that the beginning of rapture is happening right now according to Revelations...The hunger and strife..the way our country is going right now...Now that I do wonder about..Revelations can be such a confusing book IF it is not explained right and in detail, people tend to get confused as to the signs...



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          Denise Alleyne-Hill wrote Jan 18, 2009
        • And see, I didn’t know about all of these stages, I was never taught that part..Just the after-effects of the Rapture and where everyone will be placed, according to beliefs



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          Di777 wrote Jan 24, 2009
        • Hi everyone:
          I know there are many theories on the “Rapture” and many ways of “using” scripture to support each theory.
          I believe that first and foremost, we need to be ready for the Lords coming. Whether He comes before, mid or after the Great Tribulation.
          If He told us that some will say He is over there, we are not to go. We will know when He does come. SO Be READY at ALL times. Trust in Him to see you through no matter what happens and times will get rough (an understatement).
          That is what I believe. I dont care when He comes, just looking forward to the Day He does.
          Dianne



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Theresa Simmons wrote Feb 8, 2009
        • only God knows, and he aint telling.:)



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          Mary Clark wrote Feb 14, 2009
        • Annie...I’m just realizing you all had responded again on this post.  For some reason I didn’t get notification that another had posted.  Sorry about that.  

          I will do some more reading up on the end of times and as I get the info I will post it for discussion.  

          Just a thought...but don’t you think people during WWII...the Americans...the Germans.. and all believers..thought it was the end of time or getting close?  

          I consider those “birth pains” to the end...myself.  And I think what we as a nation...or as the world...is going through is just another pain. (JMO though)



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        • 0 votes vote up vote up

          Denise Richardson wrote Feb 14, 2009
        • No Man Knoweth the Day and Hour
          Mk. 13.32-37 · Lk. 17.26-36 · 1.34-36
          36  ¶ But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

          37  But as the days of Noah were, Gen. 6.5-8 so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

          38  For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,

          39  and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; Gen. 7.6-24 so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

          40  Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

          41  Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

          42  Watch therefore; for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

          43  But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

          44  Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. Lk. 12.39, 40



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          3sa wrote Feb 14, 2009
        • Wow Neicy.  :)  I personally don’t think it matters much when the hour is, if you are ready.  Plus Your Rapture comes the day you die, so wondering and worrying about it is only a distraction for what you should be doing and that is being reborn.  Just my 1 cents.



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          Onevision wrote Feb 14, 2009
        • To answer the question: I believe in the rapture, I believe in Heaven and Hell. I also believe that there are people walking around who want eternal life, but are not saved.

          Also,  thats just it BB, you hit the nail on the head! There is no such thing as “the best person in the world” or the “perfect person“. EVERYONE has sinned! We all fall short, that is why we are all in need of a savior.  

          I don’t want to argue or make anyone feel bad. However, I believe that there is a Heaven and Hell. If somone I know could be going to Hell, and I think that, well it's not really worth telling them this because it would make it socially awkward .... How much do I have to dislike somebody to believe that everlasting life is possible and not tell them that? That is what I don’t buy into.... I tell them and they make their own personal choice to follow or not to follow Jesus, that is what “free will” is all about. God gave us “free will“.....for those who choose Jesus, there is eternal life.



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          Mary Clark wrote Feb 14, 2009
        • Well said onevision!!  I couldn’t have said it better!  You all have a choice...God gave you “free will” to make that choice.  I choose Jesus...and I KNOW where I am going.



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          Elizabeth "Libby" Day wrote Feb 20, 2009
        • Ladies, I think discussion is wonderful and necessary.  But we must not let our opinion or what we choose to believe override what Jesus Himself said.  That should be the final word on who is accepted into heaven and who is not.  Jesus said, “I would that every man would be saved.”  But the Bible is also full of scripture that indicates God calls and elects those who are His chosen.  These are not conflicting theologies but confusing ones to our finite minds.  We just need to know that God loved us before we were formed and desires that “none should perish.”  Read John 3:16.  But neither can we say salvation is all up to us and our free will because that would put us into authority over God and do away with His sovereignty and the price He paid on the cross for our sins.  I know this is deep, but something you may want to pursue in your study of the Bible.

          For those of you questioning God’s love and the price He paid for our salvation, read the Book of John in the Bible.

          Yes, the Jews are God’s chosen people but that does not mean they get a free pass because of their lineage.  “No man comes to the Father except through me‘, Jesus said, and that means all men.  The Jews have a responsibility to respond to what Christ did on the cross just like we do.  Ancestry or race, or religion have nothing to do with responding to God and His desire that we all spend eternity with Him.

          I hope this helps more than confuses but also hope it makes you search the Word and let God reveal Himself to you as He chooses.

          Libby



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          Dana Arcuri wrote Feb 20, 2009
        • libby1944, I disagree with you 100%.  Jesus Christ gives us the FREE WILL to choose salvation, but He does NOT force us.
          We have to freely choose Jesus Christ as our savior.  Not all men (and women) will chose salvation and many will turn away from Him.  God is knocking on the door, but if one chooses to not answer the door, they will not be forced one way or the other.

          When Jesus said, “NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER,EXCEPT THROUGH ME” that NEVER meant that all men will come to Him.  You interpreted the scripture incorrectly.  

          If you read the entire scripture of John 3:16 it states, “FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONE AND ONLY SON, THAT WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHALL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.”  This scripture is very clear and the message is transparent in which NOT everyone will believe and go to heaven, but ONLY those that BELIEVE will have eternal life in heaven.  

          If ALL men would come to Jesus then He NEVER would have had to suffer & die on the cross.  There would be absolutely NO reason for Jesus to be born, die on the cross and then resurrect three days later.

          It is clear in the bible that there are people that do not enter the kingdom of heaven.  The bible states in Hebrews
          3:18-19, “AND TO WHOM DID GOD SWEAR THAT THEY WOULD NEVER ENTER HIS REST IF NOT TO THOSE WHO DISOBEYED? SO WE SEE THAT THEY WERE NOT ABLE TO ENTER, BECAUSE OF THEIR UNBELIEF.”

          Libby, possibly you have been misinformed, but what you wrote up above is not accurate.  If you open your bible to John 3:36 and read it entirely, it says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN THE SON HAS ETERNAL LIFE, BUT WHOEVER REJECTS THE SON WILL NOT SEE LIFE, FOR GOD‘S WRATH REMAINS ON HIM.”
          There is no confusing this scripture that simply states that not all individuals are going to have eternal life.

          You mentioned up above that “we should not let our opinion or what we choose to believe override what Jesus Himself said.”  Yet, you are projecting your OWN opinion and belief into a biblical scripture, which you are interpreting incorrectly.  

          I suggest everyone who reads this post to open up your own bible and read God’s word for yourself.  God calls each of us to know Him personally and to have a relationship with Jesus Christ so we can be aware of His biblical truth, rather than get fooled by false prophets.  

          Salvation is up to each of us and it is a gift from God.  Do not just take my word for it, go read it in the bible.
          Look in Ephesians 2:8-9, which states, “FOR IT IS BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED, THROUGH FAITH - AND THIS NOT FROM YOURSELVES, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD - NOT BY WORKS, SO THAT NO ONE CAN BOAST.”  

          Lastly, John 14:6, ‘JESUS SAID TO HIM,“I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE.  NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER, EXCEPT THROUGH ME.”  

          Another example of God being our gift is in Romans 6:23,
          “FOR THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH, BUT THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD.” Jesus paid the full price of OUR sin when He was nailed upon the cross.  Jesus paid the ransom for you and I.  

          If you have never given your life over to Jesus to be born again in His image, He is knocking at your door right now, but it is your choice to answer.  It is up to you to open the door (of your heart & soul) to ask Jesus to enter.  He will not force you.  The decision is all up to you.



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          Elizabeth "Libby" Day wrote Feb 20, 2009
        • Dana,

          I have reread my post and have no idea how you could have misconstrued what I wrote so drastically.  But if you did, then others no doubt will also.

          In no way did I say or mean to imply that ALL are saved.  I simply do not believe that as you do not.  I do believe the Bible teaches that God is sovereign and in His sovereignty chooses those who will be saved.  That does not mean we do not have the responsibility to respond to His call on our life.  We do, and that is where man’s free will comes into play.  I don’t understand all of this but I am confident God is always God and has His plan for our salvation well under control.

          I could not agree with what you wrote more.  I am sorry that my intentions to not confuse failed and obviously did just that. Christ did willing die on the cross so that we might be saved. The Ephesians scripture you quoted says it all very plainly.  "FOR IT IS BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED, THROUGH FAITH – AND THIS NOT FROM YOURSELVES, IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD – NOT BY WORKS, SO THAT NO ONE CAN BOAST."  This salvation is not of ourselves, but is God’s gift through grace.  He does call us and we respond.  But even He gives us the grace to respond.  But, I agree, not all men will respond.  No, not all will be saved.



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          Coachmombabe wrote Feb 20, 2009
        • I think you are both saying the same thing here. I read both posts twice, and I think, as you said Libby, that there was some room for misinterpretation of what you said. Though I felt you were clear, I can see how one might misread it.

          You both are wise and articulate. I am reminded of Paul’s exhortation in Colossians 3:12-14:

          Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.

          Together for the Kingdom,
          Cindy



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          Onevision wrote Feb 20, 2009
        • Hi Ladies,
          I did a google search on “God’s Sovereignty” and found this from gotquestions.org:

          Question: “How does God’s sovereignty work together with free will?”

          Answer: It is impossible for us to fully understand the dynamics of a holy God molding and shaping the will of man. Scripture is clear that God knows the future (Matthew 6:8; Psalm 139:1-4) and has total sovereign control over all things (Colossians 1:16-17; Daniel 4:35). The Bible also says that we must choose God or be eternally separated from Him. We are held responsible for our actions (Romans 3:19; 6:23; 9:19-21). How these facts work together is impossible for a finite mind to comprehend (Romans 11:33-36).

          People can take one of two extremes in regard to this question. Some emphasize the sovereignty of God to the point that human beings are little more than robots simply doing what they have been sovereignly programmed to do. Others emphasize free will to the point of God not having complete control and/or knowledge of all things. Neither of these positions is biblical. The truth is that God does not violate our wills by choosing us and redeeming us. Rather, He changes our hearts so that our wills choose Him. "We love Him because He first loved us" (1 John 4:19), and "You did not choose me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).  

          What are we to do then? First, we are to trust in the Lord, knowing that He is in control (Proverbs 3:5-6). God's sovereignty is supposed to be a comfort to us, not an issue to be concerned about or debate over. Second, we are to live our lives making wise decisions in accordance with God's Word (2 Timothy 3:16-17; James 1:5). There will be no excuses before God for why we chose to disobey Him. We will have no one to blame but ourselves for our sin. Last but not least, we are to worship the Lord, praising Him that He is so wonderful, infinite, powerful, full of grace and mercy—and sovereign.

          Recommended Resource: Debating Calvinism - Five Points, Two Views by Dave Hunt and James White.



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          Coachmombabe wrote Feb 20, 2009
        • I think that because of the “finiteness” of our human minds, we might explain God’s sovereignty and free will as a paradox.

          www.dictionary.com defines paradox: a statement or proposition that seems self-contradictory or absurd but in reality expresses a possible truth.

          I might add here, that for myself, I choose to accept this as a paradox, even though I do not fully understand.



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          Theresa Simmons wrote Feb 21, 2009
        • God be with us all,and help us to understand your words.amen.



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          Elizabeth "Libby" Day wrote Feb 21, 2009
        • Onevision,
          Thank you for this beautiful explanation.  John Piper, in discussing this “paradox” said that we do not have to try to make sense of these two thoughts as “friends do not need reconciliation.”  A pastor I heard teach on this not long ago said, yes these are extremes and we need to embrace both extremes.  I am reading an interesting book on this entitled, “Love Before Time” by Johns if anyone is interested in reading more on this subject.

          As I stated in an earlier post, I trust God to be God and His Word is clear that He is the one and only way to salvation.  I just pray that my heart is becoming more and more like His.  Thank you all for this enlightening discussion.  May God bless each of you as we all strive to know Him more.



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          Onevision wrote Feb 21, 2009
        • Libby,
          It’s all good n God’s world. Blessings,

          onevision



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